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...what, no Trump thread?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by runaways, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. Agent_W

    Agent_W Active Member

    I'd love to see just how long one of the "hard-working families" we hear so much about (or are we meant to call them JAMS now?) could eke Philip Green out for food. Where's yer anarchist Mrs Beeton when you need her? Creative cannibal recipes for a fat, dead capitalist's offal. Bring 'em on!

    You're right. None of this will happen. It's a nice idea, mind.
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  3. Agent_W

    Agent_W Active Member

    Cleaners in the House of Commons, on minimum wage, contribute more of their income as a percentage in tax and NI than MPs do. Look it up.
  4. katyR

    katyR Member

    Favourite Bands:
    The Asa Hawks ;p

    Again, if you're talking about social housing here, that's a failure of government. They'll get you to somehow think it's the fault of the council, but ultimately it's a central government funding thing

    Who funds schools? Where does the money come from? Locally the council, but ultimately central government. Don't like local schools? Here you go, have some academies and faith schools. Who's objected to them the most? Those loony left liberal teachers. I know three teachers. Two of them now work abroad and one has gone feral doing supply and private tuition. Why? Gove, academies and faith schools.

    I'd argue that the problem with the "liberal left" - by which I mean the watered-down, Tory-lite Labour Party - is that they never addressed the economic reality of the people that they should have been representing. It could be argued that they never had a chance, given the way that certain parts of the press turned on them post-Blair and post-Iraq. The real failure, for me, was bailing out the banks. There was an opportunity there to say "Hey, kids, global capitalism's fucked. See what happens when you let the markets ruin everything". But Brown bottled it. Miliband also bottled it every fucking week in PMQs with Cameron's "Labour ruined the economy" taunts.

    Since then, the media's gone nuts on Corbyn, everything's moved further to the right, everybody hates everybody else, and somebody has to be to blame. Global capitalism requires the free movement of labour, and people undercutting each other's wages. The competitiveness of manufacturing industries requires the same. Chinese companies are outsourcing to Africa; the cheapest trying to save costs by employing the poorest.

    Where does this end? Hating your neighbour or hating the system that put them next door to you? Global capitalism is based on unlimited aspiration, and the advertising says as much. "Work hard for a better life", they say. It's a false promise, total bullshit. You're just as much as a victim as the immigrant family next door. Haves and have-nots. It suits the agenda of the status quo for you NOT to get on; it suits them to make you compete, to hate, to live in fear of each other and them.

    It's all completely unsustainable and fucked. And it's enabling a load of "alt-right" types to act like proper, actual Nazis and cry like babies when you point it out.

    I'm glad I'm old. I won't have to deal with the consequences.[/QUOTE]

    I basically agree. Obviously it's not immigrants fault there isn't enough housing, school places, etc. I wasn't suggesting that at all. It's absolutely the responsibility of the government. The tories ain't too concerned about what the bottom rung have to put up with though eh.
  5. katyR

    katyR Member

    Favourite Bands:
    The Asa Hawks ;p
    Sorry that quote thing didn't quite work.

    You asked what I think the solution is? Listen to people's concerns. Don't assume you know what's right for people whose communities you don't inhabit. If enough people are saying that immigration is causing problems in their communities that we end up leaving Europe, address that instead of arbitrarily labelling half the country racists who don't understand the situation. Unless we want to end up with a trump style populist government.

    In 20 years we'll be begging for another Blair.
  6. sevenhills

    sevenhills Active Member

    I googled, but found nothing. They get £74, ooo, I assume MPs are taxed just like you and me?

    Is it some fake news that you have been reading?
  7. sevenhills

    sevenhills Active Member

  8. Hairyloon

    Hairyloon Active Member

  9. sevenhills

    sevenhills Active Member

    You really dont like MPs do you.
  10. Hairyloon

    Hairyloon Active Member

    That is an outlandish generalisation. I referred to only "too many" of them. How many do you think is too many in respect of that kind of behaviour?
  11. bongobenny

    bongobenny Well-Known Member

    My MP Richard Burgon is ace.
  12. sevenhills

    sevenhills Active Member

    He is on Question Time, tonight.
  13. GregB

    GregB Active Member

    Along with Farage & Mensch. It will be unwatchable
  14. runaways

    runaways Member

    Favourite Bands:
    Richard Burgon seems awesome, Socialist, Leeds Fan and into his heavy metal.

    Corbyn once text him, "Enjoy the Sleep gig tonight" fucking love that shit
  15. Agent_W

    Agent_W Active Member

    No worries. It's a clumsy board.

    I think we're sort of heading in the same direction here. Ish. "Communities you don't inhabit" is a very useful phrase, I think. That's where Labour used to live, and doesn't any more. There are a couple of people who used to come on here who don't any more (and I'm not going to name them, even under torture) who are Labour activists. One's a corporate asset-stripper and the other's a share dealer. I cannot in all conscience equate either of those activities with a "Labour" mentality.

    On the other wing, you have the Momentum bunch, who are routinely derided as "Trotskyist". Except they're a bunch of middle class wankers as well, with a bunch of ideas for "communities they don't inhabit".

    Cause and effect are notoriously hard to prove. "The NHS is broken because foreigns" is a soundbite that plays well. Under-funding and 75% of the people being treated being old? Not such a good soundbite. Unfortunately, we have a system of reporting that's becoming increasingly fact-free, and stuff is becoming increasingly difficult to verify.

    And, unfortunately, there are belligerents on both sides. I'm genuinely scared by some of the newspaper headlines I've read recently, and by some of the comments under those stories. I haven't seen such fractures since the mid-80s. It's not going to end well.

    To be honest, I don't think we're far off. I'm hoping, however, that he will be shown up as talking out of his arse forever, and won't get to do more than four years. Mind you, with the post-fact/post-truth stuff that's going on, nothing's certain.

    I hope you're wrong. You might be right, though. ****.

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