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Judy Finnigan wtf?

Discussion in 'Non-Music Chat' started by trev, Oct 17, 2014.

  1. JasonWakefield

    JasonWakefield New Member

    We can educate people about morality, empathy and laws in order to reduce the number of rapists in the world, and we can also educate people to be more cautious when they are more vulnerable to being a victim of rape. These two positions are not mutually exclusive, and both approaches serve the same purpose of reducing violence. To suggest all safety advice is tantamount to "victim-blaming" is not just pointlessly cynical, but also a twist of logic that dissuades people from offering and listening to very basic, obvious, necessary advice. Please be aware that I mean "rape" and "violence" as strictly gender-neutral terms, so there is nothing sexist about this point.

    Everyone is (or at least should be) agreed that the rapist is solely responsible and accountable for the rape, but here is a personal example of why it is also important to give and to listen to good advice about how to avoid it (as if something so obvious should even need stating):

    I started going out clubbing and drinking heavily when I was 18. At this time I told my parents that I took shortcuts through alleyways on the way home, and my mother told me that I should really come home with other people in a taxi, but if I had no money to afford a taxi then I should stick to the main roads. I also had a friend who told me I should not listen to my MP3 player on the way home because I wouldn't be able to hear if anyone was sneaking up on me. I ignored this advice, and then one night about 5 years ago I was beaten up severely by two strangers in hoodies. At first I tried to fight back but every punch I threw missed, and when I finally screamed for help they knocked me unconscious and scarpered. One of my ribs was cracked, my teeth were damaged and I had to have the back of my head glued shut.

    I was extra vulnerable that night because a) I was by myself, b) I was out of plain sight, c) I had my MP3 player on so I wasn't fully aware of my surroundings, and d) I was very drunk. I was drunk enough to not even see or remember the faces of the people who beat me up clearly, which meant the two thugs were never caught and might have since hurt other people too. I'm also aware that this pointless act of violence could have also become rape.

    I do not blame myself for this happening. The blame is solely with the thugs because, as far as I'm aware, they were in charge of their own limbs. But I am also fully aware that I could have prevented the beating had I listened to my parents' and friends' advice. Basically, I was an idiot, and I'd be more of an idiot if I didn't think I could have prevented it. I know the advice sounds so obvious almost to the point of being patronising, but there is a reason it is obvious: thugs do exist, and so do rapists, and we are more likely to be victims if we make ourselves more vulnerable. This is why I will continue to say "be very careful, especially when you're drunk" and this is why I will not tolerate being accused of victim-blaming when actually I'm just preventing more violence. At the same time I will also do everything I can to enlighten people as to why beating up a stranger is so wicked, pointless and primitive in the hope it prevents people from straying down that path. But let's all also make sure the laws around violence and rape are reasonable and justified, and let's please make sure we do not shut down imperative discussions about rape and how to prevent it.
     
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  3. katyR

    katyR Member

    Favourite Bands:
    The Asa Hawks ;p
    Resoundingly in agreement with Joe. If a woman is drunk, she is guilty of being drunk. If she is then raped, the rapist is guilty of rape. That is all.

    If anyone fanices being properly depressed, have a read of Sarah Vine's poisonous article defending Judy Finnigan's moronic views on the Daily Mail site. It's there somewhere. I'd provide a link but I can't bring myself to do it.
     
  4. Seany

    Seany Active Member

    Favourite Bands:
    !!!, Can, Mars Volta
    I'm with Jason's standing on rape:

    Rape is wrong under all circumstance, but people should be aware of limiting their exposure to the risk.

    Woman, men, should be able to wear what they want, act how they want, and party as much as they want, however, by doing any one of these things can lead to rape, and doing all 3 things can lead to a greater exposure for rape.

    By no way should this notion be taken on board as 'they are asking for it', where people (not specifically anyone here) have gained that from as a argument for/against rape i will never know, because that is crazy.

    But if you work in a kitchen, you wear gloves to limit your exposure to being burnt, you assume everything is hot, even if perhaps it is not.

    ------------------------------------------------


    Now the real point of the thread was should Mr Evans by allowed to continue with his football career, and surely the answer is yes? If he has served the time what is the point of not letting him play football, or having a job? He's done a crime (which obviously he's still protesting about), he's served his sentence and done the punishment, and he now needs to be reintegrated back into society. He probably only knows football, so why can't he have a job there? Highly unlikely to be able to perform the same crime 3pm in front of 30,000 people again?

    And i presume he still will have sanctions set by the court that he might not be able to do certain other things if deemed a risk; i.e. work in a Woman's shelter etc.


    Just because he's a footballer shouldn't mean he should be treated differently to anyone else, and my view point is also the same for others as well, once someone has been deemed not a risk to society, they need to be integrated into society as soon as possible, otherwise a negative vacuum can take place making re offending a stronger possibility.


    P.S im also with Joe on the fact whoever let this topic get so out of hand from being exposed on Loose Woman needs to be looked at very carefully.
     
  5. Ayala

    Ayala Member

    Favourite Bands:
    punk
    I don't think it makes any difference if it's a man or a woman. If you can say that a certain route home is safer than another, (say, choosing to get a licensed cab to drop you at your door rather than wander down lonely back alleys and dark, unlit parkways), then a man is no different to a woman in being able to make a bad call in the circumstances.
     
  6. Darren Major

    Darren Major New Member

    Favourite Bands:
    deacon blue
    "Would the argument work if it was a man? If a guy got raped (by another man or whatever) would anyone seriously use the phrase, "..but he WAS very drunk though." I think not."

    Plenty of men have sex after consuming unhealthy amounts of alcohol (and coke) often oblivious to what's going on. Shall I let you in on the difference?
    Generally speaking men don't bother seeking retribution or a court conviction after waking up feeling worse for wear, and possibly ashamed of their actions. Unfortunately it would seem men cope with the responsibility of being 'free' more honestly than females.

    If a man is 'raped' it is usually a brutal affair, and the details of which are striking, featuring violence, & culminating in total subjugation. Thus eradicating the blurred line between 'was the stupid drunk female raped' and 'this young man required intensive care treatment, followed by post op care as a result of his ordeal'.

    The same can be said for those females who, unlike the inspiration behind this debate, are victims of clearly defined brutal sexual assaults.


    "Precautions CAN be taken, but they shouldn't HAVE to be and your right not take them shouldn't be used against you to portion out some of the blame."

    But when you willingly facilitate a society fixed around hyper liberalism and 'freedom', fueled by leniency and non existent requirements of behavioural practices, both the transgressor and the victim are placed into the burden of responsibility equally. Post modern freedom in Western countries by default thrive upon tolerance for the individual, so your brave new world comes with responsibilities for everybody involved. The most you can hope for in a degenerate system is a successful, never ending, high conviction rate. Which would present a twisted false economy, acknowledging rapes are not only a frequent and an accepted facet of life, but could very well increase. Much progress.

    "thugs do exist, and so do rapists, and we are more likely to be victims if we make ourselves more vulnerable"

    But Muh freeeedom.
     
  7. Lavalas

    Lavalas Member

    Favourite Bands:
    Do Make Say Think
    Would be much easier if all the women wore burkas and didn't drink like what they do in Bradford.
     
  8. N Brown

    N Brown New Member

    Fuckin hell Allen you don't half go on.
     
  9. bongobenny

    bongobenny Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure why the mixer is relevant?
     
  10. Daimo

    Daimo Member

    10/10
     
  11. Darren Major

    Darren Major New Member

    Favourite Bands:
    deacon blue
    I should imagine coke and alcohol play a significant part in alleged raped cases involving sportsmen, on both sides. Coke is as likely to be consumed on a night out these days as alcohol. So yeah, clearly this fact bares no influence on proceedings.

    You have a young female, drunk, meets a hot guy in uber club 56, tattoos, hair-do, like omg really sexy, and eventually finds herself falling in and out of consciousness in a hotel room, naked and confused. Yeah, she's probably been sexually exploited by her hot Travis Barker lookalike.

    However can we at least agree this lass has zero standards in men? What kind of standards is she even retaining for herself? What is she even trying to achieve? Sounds to me as though she is willing to be treated indifferently.

    'But it's not her fault'.

    It might not be her 'fault', however placing herself in the firing line by leading a shallow life with nothing in the way of self respect, control or standards, choosing to hang out drunk with total degenerate strangers - says as much about her as it does about super hunk's willingness to risk freedom and face prosecution for a quick, forgettable shag.

    Seriously, what is this suicide lifestyle shit you lefists seem so infatuated with?!

    'Hey, it's best to live a freeee lifestyle of transparent idiocy and suicidal prerogative, and then blame everybody around you for forcing you to pull the trigger.'

    Makes sense.
     
  12. Darren Major

    Darren Major New Member

    Favourite Bands:
    deacon blue
    Also, the only sticking point you could find in my entire post is this?
    Talk about scraping the barrel for excuses.....
     
  13. N Brown

    N Brown New Member

    KEEP TRYING ALLEN ME OLD SON XXXXXXX
     
  14. N Brown

    N Brown New Member

    I tell you what's really annoying, when you make long impassioned posts on a forum and try and get people to engage with you and they just make jokes and ignore you, really grinds my gears LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
     
  15. N Brown

    N Brown New Member

    He's gone again. Come back you sexy white warrior!
     
  16. Darren Major

    Darren Major New Member

    Favourite Bands:
    deacon blue
    Come on brown. You're better than this. I. Think.
     
  17. N Brown

    N Brown New Member

    Sorry pal I'm not biting, best of luck with everything though, love you Allen xxxxxxx
     
  18. Daimo

    Daimo Member

    Pretty much as I found most of your posts to be absolute bollocks so I stopped reading them
     
  19. bongobenny

    bongobenny Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I also thought the expression 'hot guy' was an interesting choice.
     
  20. Seany

    Seany Active Member

    Favourite Bands:
    !!!, Can, Mars Volta
    All i got from this, was: 'so many questions trying to blow the original topic posted off course'.

    if you want a left vs right ideals thread, start one perhaps?

    Makes sense.
     
  21. TheLostArt

    TheLostArt Member

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