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Jimmy Saville rethink.

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by halliclone, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. springhay

    springhay New Member

    I actually know someone similar though spend as little time as possible in his company. His wife also does some 'you know what he's like' gestures. Personally I wouldnt put up with it and if my husband behaved like that he wouldnt last two minutes. Cant do with weak women, sorry! Someone who embarrasses the whole gathering is an ignorant bore.
     
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  3. woodchip

    woodchip New Member

    Its people with your attitude that make victims think "better just to keep quiet !!!!!!!!!! "think before you condemn, not everyone is wise at just 14 years old .
     
  4. bewerley

    bewerley New Member

    But everyone is wise after the event.
     
  5. Derc

    Derc New Member

    Unlikely I know but supposing JS had been a woman, would there have been this amount of furore? I'm not wanting to condone his despicable acts.
     
  6. bewerley

    bewerley New Member

    On a similar vein, the Burt Reynolds-Piers Morgan interview featured Reynolds losing his virginity at 15 to a 40 year old woman. Lots of wink wink nudge nudges. The general consensus is 'how lucky was Burt '
    It seems that boys are deemed to learn from that whilst girls ought to go into decline.
    The only people who take women on boy acts seriously seem to be education authorities
     
  7. Antony

    Antony New Member

    I agree. In some communities taking a young lad to a brothel to lose his virginity seems to be a kind of initiation rite to manhood. Sort of Bar Mitzvah boy. It's hardly possible for a woman to rape a man, it's more about seduction than rape. Savile tended to use power rather than seduction, and his victims tend to look with revulsion upon his attentions.
    Sometimes paedophiles use a woman to initially attract victims. Myra Hindley was such a woman, and has, along with Ian Brady been viewed as an icon of evil (possibly even more so than Brady) ever since. Fred West's victims were female, and again, he was aided by his wife Rosemary. She has replaced Hindley as the evil icon. I think that women offenders against children attract an extra degree of abhorrence because culturally and stereotypically they're expected to be sort of warm, cuddly caring mother figures, and the contradiction of the stereotype is found to be extra offensive in most minds.
     
  8. discreet investiga

    discreet investiga New Member

    well I met him in 1978 and spent the day escorting him. He was very intelligent, charming and very normal, I thought. He must have done some of the awful things alleged as there are too many to ignore asjust disclosures for hidden agenda purposes. But for lots of reasons - how sad the man is not hear to give his account or to even be made to take responsibility for his actions in this world. However, I'm sure God will judge him.
     
  9. leeds1888

    leeds1888 New Member

    I would like to know why and the names of the people behind it. He was in showbiz and showbiz is infamous, more so then and now. we can suppose it might have happened,we can also suppose he had a woman in his life, more in his age group.
    A name like the mecca for a dance hall in the u.k, named after a city in the islamic religion seems peculiar,it would be like going to the bethlehem or buddhist dance hall or night club, all would fit with a social meeting hall for, in order, muslims,judaics or orientals.
    If any people know the motives behind this and names behind it let us know.
    As for esther rantzin playing the concerned, honest, caring person, when she is in showbiz herself and she seems as false and insincere as her concern for the women saying they were abused. That is how she seems to me.
    I think i might of gone once or twice i cannot recall but more than that happened in the 50's/60's a bit revolutionary,coffee bar kids,american folk music,jazz european and uk,country and western and the uk but not from the uk singers like frankie vaughan and englebert humperdink amongst others.
    Think 24 hour radio and t.v. some with stations broadcasting pop music for 24 hours,freeview with numerous stations, pornography and nudity and a ? as to why all the in you face,you will listen and believe this about a northern dance hall manager and t.v show presenter.
    Also the religious sexual abuse cases,religious abuse,yes, adult abuse and sexual sometimes but child sexual abuse is surprising. They seem to be picking on the catholic and c of e church, although the pentacostal and evangelical churches and some indian and oriental cultures religions have also abused uk people,as has judaism.
    I am disgusted by the printing/publishing companies and their staff,daily national newspapers and daily local evening newspapers,weekly and monthly magazines,novels, radio and television news, porn films,magazines and films in general, we get from all sides.
     
  10. romanbob

    romanbob New Member

    Perhaps his behaviour was more normal back 40 years ago; but people are imposing todays standards on him.
     
  11. bewerley

    bewerley New Member

    If God does indeed judge him it will not be against man made laws.
     
  12. leeds1888

    leeds1888 New Member

    His actions do not affect the world,airlines flying passengers and cargo do,ships do the same,so drop the worldly bit.
    As for the ancient god of biblical/judaic,perhaps muslim infamy, (to us at this side of the
    compass) i did not know he was from a judaic background on one side of his family. He will be judged by the public because for reasons unrevealed some people have gone out to get his reputation ruined.
    He was part of the very offensive show biz,t.v, cinema and radio and publicists,they are using that to destroy his reputation.
    Some of the newspaper people are like that as some of the television people are.
    If he was investigated by the police in the past, the correct procedure was followed, mouthing off to the sordid,grubby minded, publicity people is offensive in itself, the people involved knew and they were the only people that needed to know,they actually put the victim, if it was true, into more danger if jimmy saville and his family became vengeful. That would mean the complainant and family would have to move and change their names.
    It is beyond my powers of comprehension to understand why people would do this and of course involve the public. The situation is, i have come in from shopping, i cook a meal and later switch the news on and this is in the news. Is that a nice thing to do to anyone
    in this way. I wonder if the police wrote to the alleged victims when the hate campaigner
    started their campaign? I cannot remember if i saw him at the mecca, i have seen him on T.V. but i can say i saw pop singers,folk singers, films, that's life,z cars,how many people and programmes have we seen since it began.
    Not forgetting the offensiveness towards families,their children and teenagers, throughout the last century
    Do let us on leeds forum know.
    Bewildered
     
  13. Hairyloon

    Hairyloon Active Member

    I was a bit young to remember much from 40 years ago, but I struggle to believe that raping children was ever even remotely acceptable... except within the Catholic Church where it is rewarded with a knighthood. :?
     
  14. bewerley

    bewerley New Member


    Bewidered certainly sums up your posting. Written in the style of Rambling Sydney Rumpo.
     
  15. romanbob

    romanbob New Member

    Has anything happening regarding the BBC, wasnt there some sort of legal action being taken?
    What has been alledged?
     
  16. Antony

    Antony New Member

    bewerley is right. Savile's actions were just as criminal in the 50s and 60s as they are now. Contrary to what many still insist on believing, his victims didn't all wait until he was dead before telling their story. Those who reported them were not believed. Allegations have been made that he had certain police officers in his pocket, and that they intervened to protect him from thorough investigations by officers from other areas. I know women who say that in their teens they kept their distance from him in his Mecca days, due to his "Desert Disease" reputation, and a retired nurse has told me that she was groped by him in a lift at the LGI, I've not been remotely surprised that all this stuff has bubbled to the surface now.
    Further investigations are taking place, and, abhorrent as the news is, more is due to surface in the fullness of time.
    Will God punish him? I'm not persuaded that there is a God, but if there is, Her punishment will be terrible!
    To adopt something of the fashionable rambling style, when religion confers power along with an apparent hatred of sexuality, it seems to me that a culture is likely to develop whereby the most powerful (priests, who can forgive sins on behalf of God, are exclusively male and not allowed to marry - apart from those converted after marriage), and having to deny the same sexual needs as the rest of us men, are likely to be more strongly tempted to take advantage of opportunities of sexual outlet, and that is more likely to be with the vulnerable e.g. children and those over whom they have the most power. The RC Church needs to take a more profound look at the psychological and sociological aspects of the culture that they espouse.
    Mecca? It's a place of pilgrimage, and I've no doubt that the dance hall was named to signify the anticipated trek of vast numbers who would be drawn to its attractions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  17. beetee

    beetee New Member

    Surely right is right and wrong is wrong it don't need a God or a Genius to judge the Low Life that was Saville.
     
  18. Hairyloon

    Hairyloon Active Member

    Very often things are not so black and white... I do not believe this is one of those times.
     
  19. bewerley

    bewerley New Member

    Which part of his troubled life would he be judged against by an omnipotent God. His dark side of a life, a psychological disease or a continuous struggle for atonement by tireless money raising?
    Did feelings of self loathing or self aggrandisment drive him to pound out those marathons?..how can we ever know of the incubus that sat on his shoulder causing him to commit the worst of social crimes?
    His crimes can be judged by law but the deeper person who was afflicted by those unsavoury compulsions can only be judged by a higher authority.
    What demons lay behind the cigar and dark glasses when he sought limelight approval yet perhaps felt only self loathing?
    Living with a tormented soul is not escaping punishment.
     
  20. Gargoyle

    Gargoyle New Member

    I get confused about what can be classed as child rape. Out and out child abuse or sexual penetration by a stranger or family member when it is NOT wanted, or the child is too young to understand is definitely child abuse and should be punished. But when a teenage girl goes out dolled up to the eyes, looking and acting older than her years, with the intention of luring a young lad into having sex and TELLING him she is older than she is, sounds to me like its either consensual, or its a trap. The young lad, who is still basically a child himself will not be able to determine how old a girl is, more so if she LOOKS over 16. The girl knows what she is doing is wrong, she knows she lied about her age, she knows she'll get into trouble, and she knows HE will. Why all the blame is put on the lad I don't know. It would be different if he actually forced himself on her, but for those who DONT force themselves on anyone, and genuinely think she's of age, what else can he do, he cannot very well ask for her birth certificate, she could show him her sisters, or one of her older friends. I am not saying its RIGHT, I am just trying to see the other side. In those days band members got high in order to continue on the road and find the energy to constantly perform every night, they got drunk, they had girls wanting to be with them, they wanted female company, they were so high they'd believe anything you told them, they weren't all to know that the girl they was with had her own agenda. Then when things go wrong they blame the bloke. On saying all that, I know some of the lads would have forced their way onto a girl, the attitude from SOME of them was...well she asked for it, WRONG. some girls just wanted to be wanted, feel special, hey I met the band etc. they didn't anticipate what came with it when the lad made a move. But leeches like Saville have no excuse, he's just one of the skin crawlers of this world, and there are many. He used his self promoted power to keep the girls quiet. Its sad, there are men sat innocently drinking in pubs what feel they have to look the other way if a child comes by playing in front of them incase he's accused of perving. Yet there are others who sit watching children and they ARE perving, who the hell is who these days.....confused again.
     

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